Cutting Cornices

I would love to hear some thoughts on local ethics/general responsibility around releasing cornices onto the slope below to check the stability or to clear out unstable/bad snow. I'm thinking specifically of the cornices at the top of all the couloirs off of Stevens Peak. Here are some of my thoughts and questions:
  • With regards to dropping the cornice with the intention of clearing out unstable storm snow, this seems like kind of a chimpy, short-sighted move; sure, it allows you to ride the slope 'safely' that day, but you're intentionally wiping out a bunch of good snow that would probably be stable in a few days. How much of an effect would a cornice fall actually have on the snow quality for future parties?
  • Should we be dropping cornices with greater regularity to reduce the likelihood of one falling accidentally on a skier below?
  • For the current situation at Stevens, there's a small storm slab over a rain crust covering some softer snow; could a falling cornice actually improve the snow quality by breaking up the crust and revealing the softer snow beneath?
  • Does an area like Stevens get enough traffic that it would be unwise to drop a cornice even if you have checked pretty thoroughly that nobody is below?
  • What methods have people found most effective for cutting the cornice? Knotted cord, snow saw on a pole, specifically designed products (http://backcountrybomb.com/), jumping on it (scary!), etc.
  • Being on belay seems pretty important, and not having a cutting cord wrapped around/looped behind any body part. Any other crucial safety concerns?
 

PowderPanda

Staff member
Hey @trash,
Always good thoughts in regards to the knowing if someone's below. Since Stevens Pk gets a bit more traffic, there could be someone that already dropped well before the person sitting at the top of the cornice. Thus, the knowledge of their presence would be difficult to determine.
I will add the more pressing concern, getting on those cornices. Not sure how much you've been out there in the winter, but they get HUGE! As in Semi truck and trailer HUGE. This season things are pretty light thus far for our snow pack (albeit, still better than many areas of the US good years). But those cornices by about mid-Feb will be immense.
Knowing how far the will crack back would be the challenge as there is a good chance, one would go for a ride.

Now, as for quality of snow. Cornices are the natural backcountry bombs, which releasing a cornice gives you an idea of what the snow stability is. For instance, @idsnowghost and I have been known to kick off cornices to give ourselves a general idea (maybe before or after we dig a pit) of what's going on with the stability in that area under the cornice., and I'll admit it is super fun. I'll note, the areas we kick these off at, there is definitely no one far below slope.

As for cutting cornices, that would depend on location. I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is an ACMG guide in BC this last summer. He suggests being out of your gear, taking your board or ski and cut from the back, where you'd know the ground typically lays and begin cutting and prying forward the snow. Now, this really would require knowledge of the area when there is no snow. One thing I teach in avy courses is to hike the terrain you ride, in the summer. there is a wealth of knowledge from that.
Being belayed is def a good idea when the cornice is huge (more than a few feet hang out) and I do have a knotted cord that I use sometimes for that.. but main purpose is for isolating my extended columns.

Hope that sheds some light with my thoughts.

Cheers,
PP
 
Kinda late stepping into this thread...please take no offense as none is meant...But, if you have to ask those questions, you should not start with Steven Peak's cornice! You definitely want to start small and work up to a cornices the likes of Stevens Peak. Personally, I think there are too many people skiing up there to be real safe, unless you are absolutely sure no one is below. I've seen those cornices go an awfully long ways.
My #1 rule in regards to cornices..."they always break back farther than you think". I've thought I was in a safe spot only to see the ripping crack coming back towards me...not fun!
Unless there are some burly trees on the peak or ridge to tie off to, use a ski or your board as an anchor. Learn this technique, as it can be very useful.
I prefer using cord (knotted) as it keeps me farther away from the edge. NEVER wrap cord around your wrist or hand. Had a friend lose a brand new glove one day doing that, but considering the cornice took out trees below (oops) he was really lucky.
I agree with PP's assessment as well. I've pried some smaller ones, but always with skis off and tied off to something.
I've never seen an avalanche, natural or otherwise that helped the skiing conditions. It can make the chute safer, yes, but the snow is never as good.
I probably sound old (which I am) and paranoid (no, just realistic), but I've been doing this since the late 70's. I've been in slides. I've been fully buried. I've dug friends out...I've lost friends (even a couple of top notch guides)...Let the snow settle...be patient (its a virtue)...and, there's always another day to try if you make it back safely.
Good luck and be safe!
 

PowderPanda

Staff member
Kinda late stepping into this thread...please take no offense as none is meant...But, if you have to ask those questions, you should not start with Steven Peak's cornice! You definitely want to start small and work up to a cornices the likes of Stevens Peak. Personally, I think there are too many people skiing up there to be real safe, unless you are absolutely sure no one is below. I've seen those cornices go an awfully long ways.
My #1 rule in regards to cornices..."they always break back farther than you think". I've thought I was in a safe spot only to see the ripping crack coming back towards me...not fun!
Unless there are some burly trees on the peak or ridge to tie off to, use a ski or your board as an anchor. Learn this technique, as it can be very useful.
I prefer using cord (knotted) as it keeps me farther away from the edge. NEVER wrap cord around your wrist or hand. Had a friend lose a brand new glove one day doing that, but considering the cornice took out trees below (oops) he was really lucky.
I agree with PP's assessment as well. I've pried some smaller ones, but always with skis off and tied off to something.
I've never seen an avalanche, natural or otherwise that helped the skiing conditions. It can make the chute safer, yes, but the snow is never as good.
I probably sound old (which I am) and paranoid (no, just realistic), but I've been doing this since the late 70's. I've been in slides. I've been fully buried. I've dug friends out...I've lost friends (even a couple of top notch guides)...Let the snow settle...be patient (its a virtue)...and, there's always another day to try if you make it back safely.
Good luck and be safe!
Well said @Tiny World
 
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